Custody Fight.... Hearing In 3 Weeks And Need Advice Options

[coz2010]

Hello,

I’m in need of some advice concerning an upcoming custody hearing my ex-wife has with her previous husband. We were married in 2000 and she had 2 daughters (3&5) from her previous marriage. We had 2 boys in 2001 & 2003. Unfortunately our marriage was quite a roller coaster ride and ended in divorce in 2007. My ex had some serious problems keeping committed to her relationships with men and tended to run away before she realized what she had done. Throughout the last three years we have tried working it out to no avail but in the last 3 months we decided to put both feet in and truly give it another try. My boys are as happy as ever and things have been great between us. My ex was diagnosed with Bipolar in Jan-2008 and that put everything in to perspective for me. I can see now most of her behavior was a symptom of mania. She’s finally taken ownership of her problem and is doing things to avoid having problems now and into the future. She always taken care of the kids, there’s never been any physical abuse nor has she had any problems with drugs or alcohol. Her main problem has been she runs from one relationship before even ending the previous one. Between me and her previous husband we probably had 10 brief separations and 3-4 divorce filings.

My problem revolves around my 2 step daughters that are now 14 & 16. They have been through all of these marital problems and the multiple boyfriends since our divorce which has put serious strain on her relationship with the girls. Back in early 2008 the girls requested to move in with their father, switch schools, and basically amend the custody arrangement. No stipulations were filed with the court and they have basically agreed to the changes via email. My ex reluctantly agreed to allow this to happen although the last agreed upon custody arrangement was Tuesday-Weds one week and then every other Fri-Sat-Sun. Her ex filed a motion for mod of child support and parenting time in Oct 2008 and that has been pending ever since. Since that motion the girls have decided along with the ex’s approval to pick and choose when they want to go to mom’s house. At one point mom went to pick up the 16 yr old (15 at the time) and she refused to go, police were called and the daughter was allowed to stay with father. I agree there are some deep issues between the oldest daughter and mom but when you really look at it all there’s nothing that couldn’t be fixed in some counseling and it comes down to the ex-husband allowing the girls to basically control the situation. The 14 yr old most likely has Bipolar also so this strife between the parents has allowed her to manipulate the situation even more. A custody hearing is pending 3 weeks from now.

I have throughout the last 2 months tried to mediate a settlement between them on child support and the custody arrangement. The ex husband has consistently painted mom in a very bad light in the girls eyes, even going as far to inform them of mom’s infidelity among other things that should have never been disclosed to them. He is angry and refuses to let it go. The girls have always blamed mom and looked at their father as a victim and he and his wife have built upon this resentment the girls have against their mom by fueling it. Parental alienation is very obvious but the ex-husband will not admit any wrong doing. Mom has changed big time and is trying to deal with her past problems but the 16yr old is unwilling to even sit down with mom to discuss it. Between Oct-Jan the girls were coming to mom’s on a regular basis but now that a court hearing is approaching they have reversed course and won’t even respond to mom. The ex-husband responded to a settlement offer basically saying 2 days a week for the 14yr old and the 16yr old had the option whether she wanted spend the night with mom at all. The problem here is if we allow the 16 yr old this much control it doesn’t leave much room to parent because if visitation is all up to her every time she gets in trouble she’ll just say she’s going to her dads. On the other hand if we have the judge order 3 days a week the 16 yr old may resent mom for forcing her into it and push her further away. The ex-husband will not look good in the eyes of the judge for basically withholding visitation and allowing the girls to dictate visitation themselves by going when they want. The 16yr old is upset with mom over her inability to manage her relationships and putting her through all of it but mom can’t make amends if the daughter wants to be stubborn and if the ex-husband enables this behavior. I would be more in favor of their proposal if they could admit to parental alienation and agree to work on changing that but they take no responsibility in any of it. I’m stuck in a rock and a hard place here because I don’t want to spend $4000 taking this to court if forcing a 16 yr old to see her mom is only going to push her farther away. One big issue here is my boys are not seeing their sisters because of this and the judge may very well order the 16 yr old to be at mom’s for 3 days a week for this issue alone. My main question here is do I instruct mom to send this in front of the judge and force the judge to order a set visitation schedule or do we agree to letting the 16 yr old dictate when she wants to spend overnights. There’s only 18 months left and the 16 yr old can choose for herself. I think the girls want to spend time with mom but they are in fear of disappointing their father now that he has went through the trouble and money of taking this to court. I’m very familiar with the legal aspects of it all and think the judge will split this down the middle based on the facts. I’ve argued two cases myself pro se and won hands down even against a 35 yr seasoned attorney but I’d like to keep this out of the court room if possible. At this point the father has filed a motion to let the 16yr old talk to the judge regarding her desire to stay at dads rather than being forced to go to moms. The daughter will not speak to mom about her feelings, she holds everything in and does not want to discuss her feelings.

I know this post has dragged on too long so I’ll stop now and hope some of you can throw some advice my way.

[nas2129]

Welcome to the forum, coz!

How about asking for a GAL to be appointed? If a GAL is appointed she/he can be the middle ground, non-biased opinion. They act on the interests of the children.
You have something vested in this because of your sons.
Not all states recognize PA....some just push it to the side and ignore it while others recognize it and try to change it. Have you looked into your statutes regarding it?

[Ed]

Hello coz and welcome to CCF!

I'm sorry to hear that the relationships between the mother and children have gotten to this point. For what it's worth, I think it's great that mother and children have you in their corner looking at the big picture.

The biggest issues you have against you here are the age of the children and the amount of time you have to work with.

I think rather than think of this in terms of what can I get from an order, I would think about what needs to be done to salvage the relationship. I agree with nas that a GAL may be helpful (if available to you) but you are seriously on the clock with the 16 year old for sure.

Forget about visitation as a standalone issue for just a moment. If you could make any action happen to heal this relationship, where would you turn? I don't know how much influence you have, but if both parents want this to work, what is the best solution for the children?

Talk to me a bit about what you think needs to happen (counseling, living arrangements, relationships, etc). Let's figure out what needs to happen and then we can talk about how to make it happen.

Ed...

[nas2129]

I was just thinking about your case and had to type this out before I forgot....

Does the 16yr old know anything about her mom's disease? Does she understand it? Has mom sat her down and tried to explain things to her?

The reason I ask is because I, too, have a medical disease. Mine is a physical one so there's a lot of pain involved, doctor appointments, testing, etc.
For a very long time, I kept it a secret from my daughter. She's only 11, but I felt like my medical issues were not life threatening and the last thing I wanted was for her to worry about me. Plus, I didn't think it was "child worthy" to talk to her about it.
Anytime she wanted to go outside to play or go to the park, I wasn't able to take her because the pain, at times, is/was intense. So I would always say "oh not today, mommy has a headache" or "not today mommy needs a check-up at the doctor's office". I knew she was disappointed because I could see it written all over her face. Other moms would be out doing stuff with their kids on nice days and we were stuck inside.
In 2007 I had to have brain surgery and the doctors were talking about the possibility of having my head completely shaved for the surgery. At that point, I couldn't brush it off with excuses. I sat her down and in the most kid-friendliest terms, I explained it to her. Afterward, she understood as much as I told her, she digested it, asked questions, and I started letting her come to the appointments with me so that if she had any questions, she knew she could ask the doctor.
Opening up that line of communication really helped.
I didn't want her to pity me or feel bad, but I wanted her to understand that sometimes I can't do what other moms can....but I will certainly try and make up for it in other areas.
Now we are open with it and she knows that I don't take medical issues lightly. So she doesn't feel nervous coming to me about a stomach ache or if she has a headache; she knows I'll take her seriously and that I want to be able to take care of her the best I can.

If kids don't understand something, they're more inclined to act out and avoid the situation altogether. If the daughter understands, maybe she would be more open to spending time with mom....that's why I asked what I asked.

[coz2010]

Hi Guys,

I would be more likely to file a motion to have a GAL appointed but this late in the game it's not going to happen. The ex-husband refuses to accept any responsibility in any of it and that's the main problem. I'm not excusing mom's behavior in the past and certainly understand the stress in put the girls under over the years but at the end of the day the kids have always been taken care of. Sure, the ex-husband is remarried and his home certainly appears more structured and stable in the eyes of the girls compared to mom's house but there are no grounds here for a Judge to deny Mom equal access to the kids. Court aside, my main objective is setting the stage for mom and her daughter to work out the issues of the past. Because of her age I don't think an order from the court forcing her to be at mom's 3 days a week will really be a means to an end here. The 16 year old has always held her emotions in and you need a crow bar to pry anything out of her so these emotions are buried deep inside. I've proposed counseling for both her and mom to have a more neutral setting to get it all out on the table. The ex says we can't force her to talk. I've stated she could sit there and not talk but sooner than later she would open up and she's forced to do things everyday and for her best interest she needs a push in the right direction. Mom has tried to arrange to have one on one time with her to confront the issues but the daughter avoids that like the plague. Even though I agree mom has some explaining to do she can't do it if the daughter won't respond and if the ex-husband enables her avoidance.

I've explained to the ex-husband that even if Mom wrote him a check for a cool million it wouldn’t solve things if he's unwilling to accept his role in causing part of this divide. I remain convinced that he is a major block in getting the girls back on track with mom. He's basically admitted he's holding "co-parenting" hostage because mom hasn't paid her fair share. We let him get away for years without paying a dime for the girls and now he wants to forget all that and wants every last penny. For the past three months the girls have used this situation to their advantage, getting mom to take them out to dinner, buy them things and walk on eggshells in regards to discipline for fear of them running to their dads. That has to change because the kids can't be allowed to have that kind of control to play that game. 3 weeks ago we were planning a day sledding in the mountains, the 14yr old called and wanted to know if we could just pick her up to go sledding and then bring her back to her dads afterwards when she was suppose to be spending the whole weekend with mom. I told mom that we can't allow her to play the game like that and that were not going to allow them to pick and choose visitation based on whether or not were going to Disney World. The ex-husband responded saying Mom really pi**ed the 14 yr old off by telling her she had to spend the weekend if she wanted to go sledding. I was amazed that he thought mom was in the wrong because I saw it completely different. At this point I realized the ex-husband has so many filters in his mind that Mom will never get anywhere because even if she does 100 things right he will find the one thing she's did he doesn't agree with and exploit it to the ends of the earth. If a counselor was involved he/she would rip him a new one on how he's rationalizing all of this because anyone with an ounce of common sense would see a mile away that he's just as much to blame here.

I want this settled and my main hurdle in getting this resolve is for him and his wife to come to terms with their part in it. Even though I can point out very obvious parental alienation they just refuse to accept any of it. If it goes to Court it will become very clear quickly and sometimes I feel they really need to have the Judge tell them how there in the wrong in so many aspects of this case. It's sad to see the girls put in the middle of this and because the ex-husband seems to think it's functional parenting to reveal to the girls every last negative thing in Mom's past along with every financial disagreement and it's making this even harder to settle. A 3rd party counselor is certainly in order and needs to happen.

I agree that mom should let the 16 yr old know part of the problem was the Bipolar and she regrets many of the impulsive decisions she made in the past that ultimately put so much stress on the kids. What I hate the most here is that Mom is finally at the point of accepting her disorder and the damage it caused but now no one will listen. It's hard for me because I worked so hard to help her to this point and now other people anger is blocking progress. I realize not everyone forgives or forgets at the same time but how do I move this along to improve the lives of everyone involve. Remember, there are 2 little boys that I would prefer to shield from further effects of this situation!!

Thanks for your comments and I look forward to more responses,

Take care
Coz

[nas2129]

RE: The GAL can be appointed even if Dad disagrees. If he does, the judge isn't going to be happy about it. It would only make Dad look bad in the end.

Unfortunately, you're stuck in the middle and you don't really have a say in the courts eyes. You can be called as a witness to testify on Mom's behalf. But ultimately, you're a third party to this particular custody issue.

Dad seems to hold a lot of anger and resentment towards Mom and, obviously, it's causing the problems. Some states do not allow visitation to be with-held because of past child support obligations. If he is doing that, that's a good way to get the judge to see just how non-interested he is in getting the girls to have a relationship with their Mom.
What is your states stance on that?

We gotta think outside the box on this one.......
Do the girls have anything they really like to do? Painting? Dance? Shopping? Maybe mom could (I hate using this word) bribe them into it. If they enjoy painting, maybe all three of them could take some art lessons....something along those lines.
The lines of communication need to be open and it's not going to happen easily or quickly. All mom needs is one good conversation with the girls. That will get their brains thinking that maybe Mom isn't so bad. Then spending time with her won't seem as bad as Dad is making it out to be.
Does this make sense? Teenagers are tricky ones....

Lemme think some more.

[Ed]

I still don't see how the courts can enable a healing here.

What I do see is this:

What you said about the 14 year old being pissed off about not getting to go sledding if she didn't spend the weekend has settled in my head. It reminds me of a small child who throws a tantrum about not getting dessert when they refuse to eat dinner. You certainly wouldn't reward that behavior by giving in.

I believe that the best way to approach this is through clear parenting. Building a great relationship with the children will pay dividends long after the court order expires. If you were to make every weekend count, the girls would be begging to head over to mom's.

I'm not suggesting that you go to Disney World every weekend. But I am suggesting that you focus on building bonds. Building bonds is done through repetitive actions. I have been personally challenged to find bonding activities but have found simple things. For instance, I take my son out to breakfast everyday I have him for school. I used to read to him before bedtime when he was little. The thing these bonding times have in common is we get to spend time together talking. These bonding experiences can never be taken off the table for any reason. If you decide to punish the child, the bonding experience is never to be used against them. PERIOD!

One possible bonding experience could be helping them to do what comes naturally to them. Women love to talk and giggle and share together, especially sisters and mothers. One great way for them to do that might be for them to go for a pedicure, manicure, or getting their nails done together. Imagine that they show up for the weekend and they get to spend 2 hours together doing something fun together. How much would that be worth? Could you ever get a court to grant you this type of order? Of course not.

I truly think that you need to change the direction you are taking here. Change your focus from a short term order to a long term solution to build bonds between family members.

Ed...

[gram]

Hi coz,

This is a difficult situation to be in and one of the major issues is the amount of time before the 16 yo can legally make her own decsions.

If these girls were several years younger I would definitely go the court/gal route, however, as slow as this process can often be the outcome might not meet your obectives. Even if you get the co you want there could be very little, if any, time left before the oldest turns 18. Forcing the kids at that age would create even more resentment and make any visits you might be able to enforce turn into a nightmare, not to even mention the financial cost.

I am not one to normally allow kids to make the decsions but at the same time I think you have to factor in that they too are victims of their mother being bipolar and their dad trying to alienate them and you need to approach this accordingly. In my opinion, you need to focus on winning the war (longterm relationship with mom) and surrender a few battles to make that happen.

First of all, I would stop trying to get dad to see the error of his ways - you have tried to mediate that and it's not happening. Stop trying to change dad and move on to the daughters. At their ages, they can think for themselves and draw their own conclusions so focus on them.

Keep the lines of communication open with the girls. I think it would be far more beneficial for mom to explain her bipolar condition and apologize for the hurt it's caused in an email or letter to her girls. This would allow mom to acknowledge the problem and assure them that she is trying to make things right without any interruptions, arguments, or hurtful comments from anyone. (And nothing negative EVER needs to be said about dad.)

Sometimes less is best. This problem didn't start overnight and it won't be fixed overnight (or even with a court order). I think mom should start out slow by inviting the girls to "events" such as that afternoon of sledding, the manicure/pedicure, or going to a movie, dinner or whatever with the two of you and their brothers. Think baby steps. Forget the all or nothing approach. The more good memories you are able to build, the more, and longer they will want to stay but let it be what they want, not what you try to force. Eventually you should be able to suggest an overnight camping trip, or stay at an indoor waterpark, or whatever might peak their interest. That does not mean they get to hold you hostage and break rules or they will "go back to dads" but choose your battles carefully.

Above all, do NOT say anything negative about dad. Over time, these girls will figure out that mom really has changed and that dad is unable to forget the past and move on. It might help to keep in mind that evidently dad was there for these girls while mom was exibiting all the negative bipolar behaviors and anything you say about him will just make the girls defensive. Let them draw their own conclusions.

[coz2010]

I'm starting to think a more graduated schedule with counseling is a better choice for the 16yr old. I think forcing her into 3 days a week is just going to push her further away. I too believe we need to look at the bigger picture here because forcing her for 18 months could cause more damage and affect Mom's relationship with the daughter for the next 10 years. Mom is gonna have dinner with the daughters next week to really get their feelings on everything. I just didn't want the 16yr old to have the option of avoiding her mom alltogether because Mom really needs something to start with to mend and heal the relationship. Ex-husband has agreed to have it set at 1 day a week for the 16yr old and 2-3 set days for the 14yr old. I'm urging mom to accept this as a start and if she does the work the girls may very well be over much more than that. There's so many dynamics to what's transpired and an order from the court isn't gonna help heal the relationship. A stipulation must be filed to address child support and expenses and to put visitation into writing but the relationship is between mother and daughter at the end of the day.

I've said several times the ex-husband just doesn't have a clue but the other day he said they didn't even need to file a stipulation with the Court. ????? He filed a motion to modify both CS & parenting time but thinks now they can just scribble some agreement on looseleaf and stuff it in the dresser drawer. LOL, he makes no sense sometimes and I literally spent an hour on the phone explaining why a stipualtion had to be filed for the protection of both parties. Mom and the ex-husband can last about 30 seconds on the phone before it turns into an arguement so I refuse to let anything be left up in the air. This whole thing has lasted 18 months from the originally motion being filed and with the girls ages there most likely will not be anymore time for Court in regards to the girls. I've always believed that with divorce every last possible thing should be put into writing to avoid conflict in the future. In a perfect world people would always negotiate a compromise for the best interest of the children and it would never go to court. I just laugh at him saying a stipulation didn't need to be filed because they could be civil and work it out. Then he said if we had to pay the attorny's to draw up and review a stipulation then we might as well go to court to settle it. LOL, it's scheduled for a full day hearing so I'm guessing were looking at $3000-5000 per party in additional legal fees if this isn't settle quickly. Probably $200 for each party to get a stipulation drawn up and filed. This is just one more example how the ex-husband makes a mole hill into a mountain. He just doesn't use common sense and when it comes to "Picking Your Battles Carefully" he gets a resounding "F"... I just gotta laugh at how stupid he sounds some times.

[nas2129]

It sounds to me like dad is trying to play a game. Filing something with the court protects everyone (as you know) so I can only imagine what his motives are by wanting to avoid it all together.

I agree that forcing the 16yr old will only cause bigger problems in the future. I think starting out slow is great. Mom needs to open up communication. Once the girls see that mom isn't as bad as dad makes her out to be, I'm sure they'll be wanting to see mom more and more.

Let us know how dinner goes. I hope the girls can see that mom is really trying.

[Ed]

Coz,

It sounds like things are headed in the right direction, although it may take an unnecessary day in court to get there. Good on you for getting this framed in the right light (healing vs forced visitation).

Okay, now I'm going to put on my new hubby hat. God bless all those idiots that set the bar so low that we can easily look like hero's to our new wives and their ex's!

For those who are familiar with the show 2 1/2 Men you may remember the line "You cleared the bar with a job and a penius". For the rest of you, let's just say use your imagination!

Ed...